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Trump’s tactics familiar to some who fled authoritarian regimes : NPR

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Hungarian police remove a protester blocking the entrance of the Parliament building in Budapest on April 14, as Hungarian lawmakers were expected to approve constitutional changes further clamping down on rights for certain groups, part of Prime Minister Viktor Orbán’s “Easter cleanup” against his domestic opponents.

Peter Kohalmi/AFP via Getty Images


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Peter Kohalmi/AFP via Getty Images

Last year, David Koranyi attended his mother’s 70th birthday party back home in Hungary, but the indirect route he took highlights the autocratic rule that grips his homeland. Instead of flying straight to Hungary, Koranyi flew to neighboring Austria and then turned off his phone and drove across the border where there was no passport control and he knew he could slip in undetected.

Koranyi runs an organization called Action for Democracy that has mobilized Hungarians overseas to vote back home, where political scientists say Prime Minister Viktor Orbán has tilted the electoral landscape toward his ruling party. The government says Koranyi threatens Hungary’s sovereignty; pro-government media routinely call him an “enemy of the state.”

“Friends and even embassies in Hungary … told me that maybe it’s better if I don’t come back to Hungary anytime soon,” says Koranyi, who was concerned Orbán’s government might try to detain him.

Threats like this are one reason Koranyi came to America and became a citizen in 2022. So, he’s been struck to see U.S. government agents stopping and aggressively questioning people — including citizens, tourists and green-card holders — returning to America.

Amir Makled is a Michigan based attorney who was detained by federal agents when returning to the US from a family vacation.

Amir Makled is a Michigan-based attorney who was detained by federal agents when returning to the U.S. from a family vacation.

Image courtesy of Amir Makled


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Image courtesy of Amir Makled

They include Michigan lawyer Amir Makled, who was stopped at Detroit Metro Airport in early April as he returned from a family vacation. Makled, who said agents asked to search his phone, thinks he was targeted because he represents a pro-Palestinian protester at the University of Michigan.

“I’m not going to be a dictator”

“I never in a million years would have imagined that atmosphere of fear and that random searches at border crossings and looking into people’s phones … is something that I would live through in my life in the United States,” says Koranyi, who lives in New York.

Countless people have left authoritarian countries for the promise of freedom and safety in the United States. NPR reached out to Koranyi and a dozen others to get their impressions of the Trump administration’s first several months in power. Most — but not all — said some of the administration’s tactics reminded them of those used by the regimes they fled.

In fact, a survey in February found that hundreds of U.S.-based scholars think the United States is moving swiftly from a liberal democracy toward some form of authoritarianism.

“This is an elected government, obviously, but it is behaving as an authoritarian one, ” says Steven Levitsky, a professor of government at Harvard University and co-author of How Democracies Die. “It is engaging in a rapid and systematic weaponization of the machinery of government and its deployment to punish rivals, to protect allies and to bully elements of the media.”

Some immigrants say Trump is the victim

Last fall, President Trump insisted he would not be an autocrat beyond Inauguration Day, when he said he would all but lock down the southern border and green-light drilling for energy.

“After that I’m not going to be a dictator,” Trump pledged to applause at a Fox News town hall during the campaign.

Some U.S. immigrants from authoritarian countries say Trump has kept his word. Lily Tang Williams, who is running for Congress for a third time in New Hampshire as a Republican, says it wasn’t Trump but former President Joe Biden, who most reminded her of the authoritarian leaders back in her homeland, China.

“Who censored us during the COVID times [and] put us in Facebook jail?” Tang Williams said in an interview with NPR. “It was not Trump. Trump himself was censored.”

Tang Williams says she blames the Biden administration for putting pressure on Facebook and Twitter to crack down on certain posts, including a meme she said she posted about mask mandates.

The Biden administration has said it was encouraging responsible action to protect public health.

If the Trump administration’s tactics have unsettled immigrants such as Koranyi, they’ve instilled fear in others, such as Fulya Pinar, a professor at Middlebury College in Vermont.

Two men wearing suits shake hands in front of Turkish and Hungarian flags.

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan (left) and Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán shake hands after a joint statement at the Carmelite Monastery in Budapest, Hungary, in 2023.

Denes Erdos/AP


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Denes Erdos/AP

Similar authoritarian tactics by Turkey’s Erdogan

Pinar grew up in Turkey and says she watched Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the country’s autocratic president, attack scholars and consolidate power over the news media. She says she moved to the U.S. in 2016 to study for her Ph.D. and to have intellectual freedom.

“It was about survival as an academic,” Pinar recalls, “to be able to continue thinking, teaching, writing without fear.”

Since taking office, Trump has withheld or threatened to withhold billions of dollars in federal contracts and research grants from universities, including Harvard, saying they haven’t done enough to fight antisemitism. In this atmosphere, Pinar worries some students could report her. She’s teaching Anthropologies of the Middle East this semester and doing so differently than in the past.

In her lectures, for instance, Pinar used to cite death tolls for conflicts such as the war in Gaza. Now, she directs students to readings where they can find answers on their own. It’s a way to insulate herself from charges of bias.

Fear in college classrooms

“I’m trying to be more careful,” says Pinar, who is untenured. “At the end of the semester, students usually provide feedback about professors, and then your promotion depends on that.”

Pinar’s worries are representative, according to the Middle East Scholar Barometer, which tracks the opinions of scholars who teach about the region. A survey in February found 57% of professors in the U.S. felt more pressure under the Trump administration to self-censor when discussing Israeli-Palestinian issues.

Having left Turkey’s autocracy for America’s freedom, Pinar says she never saw a period like this coming.

“I feel quite fragile because I feel like I can’t work freely here,” Pinar continues. “It just feels like I’m stuck.”

In addition to taking on universities, the Trump administration has also targeted news organizations that cover the president critically. The Federal Communications Commission is investigating broadcast news networks — including ABC, CBS and NBC — over allegations that they have favored Democrats. Trump has also attacked public broadcasters. In a social media post, he called NPR and PBS “radical left monsters” that hurt the country.

A woman smiles and raises her hands in the air as photographers take her picture.

Maria Ressa gestures after she and her online news outfit Rappler were acquitted of tax evasion cases against her at the Court of Tax Appeals in Quezon City, Metro Manila, in January 2023.

Jam Sta Rosa/AFP via Getty Images


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Jam Sta Rosa/AFP via Getty Images

Threatening to strip licenses from TV news broadcasters 

Journalist Maria Ressa says Rodrigo Duterte, the Philippines’ autocratic former president, used similar tactics. In 2020, Duterte’s government refused to renew the license of the country’s largest broadcaster and shut it down.

Duterte left office in 2022 and is now awaiting trial in The Hague on charges of crimes against humanity for allegedly allowing tens of thousands of extrajudicial killings during his war on the country’s drug trade. But Ressa says the damage he did to the news media endures.

“That network, even after the end of Duterte’s reign, never got its license … back,” says Ressa, who once ran the broadcaster herself. “What is damaged in this time period, what is destroyed, stays destroyed.”

Ressa won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2021 for standing up to Duterte’s attacks on her and her news site, Rappler. At one point, she faced the possibility of more than a century in prison on tax evasion and cyber-libel charges that human rights groups say were politically motivated. Ressa is spending this semester teaching at Columbia University. A dual citizen, she has a message for people here.

“Americans are slow to respond, but I know what fear does,” she says. “Don’t let fear paralyze you because you are at your strongest now, and every day you do not act and hold the line on your rights, you get weaker.“

Democratic county executive on Trump’s visit to Michigan and local economic concerns : NPR

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U.S. President Donald Trump delivers his 100th Day in office achievement speech at Macomb County Community College Sports Expo Center in Warren, Michigan, on April 29, 2025.

Jeff Kowalsky/AFP via Getty Images


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Jeff Kowalsky/AFP via Getty Images

On Tuesday, President Trump marked the 100th day of his second term with a rally at Macomb Community College in Warren, Michigan. Macomb County, a classic blue-collar swing area, voted for Barack Obama in 2008 and 2012 before flipping to Donald Trump in 2016, 2020, and 2024. Yet even as it backed Trump, voters re-elected Democratic Governor Gretchen Whitmer in 2022 and Democratic county executive Mark Hackel in 2024.

In an interview with Morning Edition, Hackel said the president’s early policies are already causing concern. “I think a lot of anxiety across the board, whether it’s in education departments, people that provide some assistance to others, the issues dealing with DEI, there’s a lot of concerns with our manufacturers, automotive, even in defense,” Hackel said. “And so, some of his policies, I think, had a lot of people up in arms and concerned, and I think it was not weighing in his favor during that time.”

In a county with roots in manufacturing and defense, and a workforce of nearly 70,000 across 1,600 manufacturers, Hackel says people are watching closely, and cautiously, as tariffs, economic forecasts and political shifts take shape.

Hackel spoke with NPR’s Steve Inskeep about how residents are reacting to the current economic climate and policy changes.

This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity.

Interview highlights

Steve Inskeep: What do the automotive tariffs specifically mean for people in Macomb County?

Mark Hackel: Interesting enough, we’ve talked to a lot of our manufacturers, and even some of the big three. We’re having more conversations with them. We’re constantly conversing with them to find out what this means. I think they’re trying to make a determination, you know, what is real, what is not. Sometimes he says something, he’s negotiating with himself. So many of them are taking a measured approach here in Macomb County, kind of the wait and see what’s happening, but also trying to make some of those adjustments in case what he says is the direction he’s going in, which makes them very concerned.

Inskeep: Are people feeling paralyzed, then?

Hackel: I don’t know if it’s paralyzed. They’re still trying to figure out how they manage what they’re doing, trying to provide the connections that they can and making sure that they’re sourcing things the way they need to source them, trying to make sure they’re providing the outputs of the products. They’re still trying to do what they normally have done. But I think the big concern is what is the cost associated with it and how they pass it along to a customer.

Inskeep: Yeah. I guess we should just remind people – the auto industry has set itself up in such a way that products move across the border from Canada and from Mexico to the United States, back and forth. As cars are assembled, the components come from lots of places. The assembly is done in a lot of places. That’s really complicated. It’s hard to mess with. But when I talk with people in the Midwest, where I’m from, sometimes I hear people say, OK, fine. This is all complicated, but too many manufacturing jobs have gone away. We need a reset. We need something drastic. Do you hear people in your county saying, you know, I don’t know what the solution is, but we needed to do something drastic?

Hackel: Yeah, that’s definitely part of the conversation. You know, even the United Auto Workers, they’re applauding the tariffs, and which was kind of surprising. We weren’t sure exactly what that meant. But Shawn Fain was out there kind of crediting the president for doing that.

Inskeep: He’s been on this program talking about it.

Hackel: Yeah. He actually lives in Macomb County, as a matter of fact. So, you know, that being said, you’re trying to figure out, OK, what does this really mean? You’ve got – which usually, you would think there’d be opposition on behalf of the auto workers supporting, you know, the president’s ideas of bringing these companies, these jobs back to the United States and, in particular, the state of Michigan.

Inskeep: We had an economist on the program today talking about a recession drawing closer. Are you preparing for economic hard times?

Hackel: Yeah. We’ve heard about that. We’ve talked to economists. And they tend to think that if there is a recession, Macomb County’s going to do pretty well through that process, but it’s definitely going to be something that’s concerning to us.

Trump’s relationship with Congress and the courts : NPR

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Many of Trump’s actions are a direct challenge to the courts and to Congress, the two branches of government designed to act as checks on presidential power. We look at this power dynamic.



JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:

Over the last 100 days, President Trump and his allies have exercised control over everything from immigration and trade to education, science institutions and the federal workforce. Many of Trump’s actions are a direct challenge to the courts and to Congress, the two branches of government designed to act as checks on presidential power. NPR political correspondents Mara Liasson and Susan Davis have been covering this power dynamic. They join me now. Hi to both of you.

SUSAN DAVIS, BYLINE: Hey, Juana.

MARA LIASSON, BYLINE: Hi there.

SUMMERS: Mara, if you could kick us off. I want to start here with just a very basic question. What is at stake with this push from President Trump and his allies to consolidate power within the executive branch?

LIASSON: What’s at stake is our system of government. You know, the founders designed a system with three coequal branches. They believed in broadly distributed power, what we call checks and balances. They knew that they couldn’t stop someone from being elected who they would have said had monarchical tendencies. They wouldn’t have said authoritarian. But they did think that this broadly distributed power system could stop that person from doing a lot of damage if he was elected.

But now we’re going to have a test of that because the judiciary, which is one of the coequal branches, cannot enforce its ruling. It depends on willing acceptance of its role as a coequal branch of government by the executive, and we are now in the midst of a kind of rolling escalation of confrontation between the executive and the judicial branch. And depending on how it comes out, we might end up with a system that has a vastly empowered executive and a kind of withered judicial and legislative branch.

SUMMERS: Sue, over to you. When Congress is controlled by the same party as the White House, as it is now, there’s not generally much pushback on the president, so tell us what’s different about this moment.

SUSAN DAVIS: Right. Like, part of this isn’t a new story. Congress, over many decades, has been ceding power to the executive. Some scholars would argue that dates back as far as the New Deal. But no president has gone as far as Donald Trump to intrude on Congress’ constitutional power to decide how taxpayer dollars are spent. This Elon Musk-led effort to cut spending has effectively shuttered agencies and institutions funded by Congress, and Republican lawmakers have, by and large, just gotten out of their way. This is Speaker Mike Johnson back in February, saying he supported what the president was doing.

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MIKE JOHNSON: It looks radical. It’s not. I call it stewardship. I think they’re doing right by the American taxpayer, and we support that principle.

SUSAN DAVIS: The speaker did acknowledge that a lot of these actions are going to be challenged in the courts, and they’ll have to respect that.

SUMMERS: I’ll just note, though, it’s not just DOGE. The president is also trying to effectively legislate from the Oval Office through executive orders on practically everything, from immigration to election law.

SUSAN DAVIS: Right. Like, consider that in his first 100 days, Trump has issued around 139 executive actions. That’s almost as much, Juana, as former President Biden issued in his entire four years in office. In that same 100-day time period, Congress has only passed five laws. It’s the lowest number in decades. But, again, Trump is not the first president to make law. Recall, former President Biden tried to do the same thing with his student loan forgiveness program. That was struck down by the Supreme Court. But Trump is certainly acting as an accelerant on this practice.

SUMMERS: Well, Mara, if Republicans control the White House and Congress, why doesn’t Trump just try to propose and pass legislation? – which is the way, as a former congressional reporter, the system was intended to work.

LIASSON: It was intended to work that way, but if you have an extremely small majority, as the Republicans do, that means you have to compromise, and that’s hard. And when past presidents tried to do very big lifts and big, ambitious pieces of legislation, they had bigger majorities. But also, not passing a lot of things through legislation is – goes with the – President Trump’s concept of executive power. He is the EO president, not the legislative president. And he gravitates towards things like immigration and foreign policy and trade, which were areas where presidents have a pretty free hand. They don’t need the judicial branch or the executive branch to do what they want to do. But the other thing about executive orders is they are not permanent. What executive orders giveth, the executive orders of the next president can taketh away.

SUSAN DAVIS: And I also think Trump has benefited from a reality in which Congress has been incapable for years of passing legislation to solve tough issues. I think immigration’s probably the best example of that. Former President Reagan was the last president to sign a comprehensive immigration bill into law. So when Congress is this dysfunctional, it just creates an opportunity for the president to act on those issues.

SUMMERS: I got to ask about the politics here. Republicans control the House by just a narrow two-seat margin, which I imagine must factor into the calculations on Capitol Hill.

SUSAN DAVIS: Always – I mean, the party in the White House almost always loses seats in the midterms. And I talked to Kevin Kosar about this. He’s a congressional scholar with the right-leaning American Enterprise Institute. And he spoke to what I think is a pretty commonly held view here in D.C. – that Republicans are likely operating within a two-year window.

KEVIN KOSAR: The amount of deference that legislators are showing is to some degree, like, we just have to do this to see if we can rack up as many wins as possible because those midterms are probably not going to go our way.

SUSAN DAVIS: The majority largely rises or falls on the popularity of the president. So there’s really no ability for Republicans here to create any daylight with Trump, so they just have to go all-in.

SUMMERS: Mara, I’ll let you have the last word. Was any of this a surprise to the voters who came out and voted for Trump based on promises to make – well – exactly the kind of changes that we’re seeing him make right now?

LIASSON: Well, I’m sure to some people it has been a surprise. They thought his first priority would be to bring down prices. But remember, people were tired of a broken, gridlocked Congress. That’s why Trump got elected. He was the change candidate, and voters wanted change. But what Sue’s talking about – Congress abdicating its responsibilities – is so important here. I mean, Congress is the Article 1 branch of government. The founders put it first. They thought they – that Congress was the best branch to serve the idea of self-governance because Congress is closest to the public. They serve two-year terms.

SUMMERS: That is NPR’s Mara Liasson and Susan Davis. Thanks to both of you.

SUSAN DAVIS: You’re welcome.

LIASSON: You’re welcome.

Copyright © 2025 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.

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Heritage Foundation president talks about Trump’s 100 days : NPR

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JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:

A few blocks from the U.S. Capitol, there is now a banner about seven stories tall, draped on the side of an office building. It reads, America’s Back, the first 100 days, and below it, the face of President Trump and a short list of ongoing agenda items. The building is the headquarters of The Heritage Foundation, the conservative think tank, which last year unveiled Project 2025. It’s a detailed plan for a future Republican administration to roll out in the event of an election victory. Though candidate Trump distanced himself from this plan, so far, President Trump is claiming power to remake the federal government, increase immigration enforcement, assert a new trade policy based on tariffs, and pursuing many other policies in ways that were laid out in Project 2025. Heritage Foundation President Kevin Roberts joins us now. Thank you for making the time.

KEVIN ROBERTS: My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

SUMMERS: I just want to start by asking you, many of the Trump administration’s actions so far are quite similar to what we saw laid out in Project 2025. Has that been validating for your organization?

ROBERTS: We’re honestly not worried about being validated. We’ve been around 53 years, and by that, I don’t imply any hubris. Certainly don’t intend it, Juana – what I mean, instead, is that the American people are the ones who should be taking a victory lap because what President Trump and Vice President Vance and what I think is the best cabinet in modern American political history have done is begin the dismantling of the administrative state that gives self-governance and power back to the American people. If The Heritage Foundation and the large coalition – 110 organizations we assembled last year – have a tiny role in providing some ideas and some of the people to help that happen – it’s something we do every four years – then we’re very happy about that but not for us – instead, for the American people.

SUMMERS: All right, let’s start there with what you mentioned, dismantling the administrative state. That language is one of the top agenda items that appears on the banner that hangs on that building. Is it fair to say that part of this project requires dramatically reducing the federal workforce through layoffs, reductions in force or RIFs, reclassification of jobs?

ROBERTS: It’s fair to say that over the next 5 or 10 years, and certainly starting in the first few months of the administration, that there need to be, through a variety of channels – and several in addition to those that you mentioned – a reduction in federal workforce. We’re hopeful for our fellow Americans who are employees of the federal government that they’re able to find employment elsewhere. And there’s nothing against them as people. The problem is that the federal government has become far too bloated.

And a good way to think about this is for every one of these federal jobs, just on average – there are exceptions to this, to be sure – for every one of those federal jobs, there is a small example – a small accrual, if you will – of expense and federal power that comes at the expense of other Americans who have lost their jobs because of that centralized power. That’s really the way we ought to be thinking about this. And that’s why this effort in dismantling the administrative state is so important for the everyday, hardworking American.

SUMMERS: To your mind, what would be the right amount of additional cuts? Where would you like to see them and how many?

ROBERTS: Well, we’re huge supporters of the total elimination of the U.S. Department of Education, not because we want to issue any harm to education – quite the opposite. We believe, looking at our data since the creation of the department since 1979, that after spending $1.6 trillion on that department and, of course, having a nationwide bipartisan effort to have excellent education, all we’ve seen, unfortunately – we lament this – is mediocrity. So the elimination of that department is a good start.

Obviously, some of the very appropriate civil rights roles that one of the subagencies at that department performs ought to be moved to the Department of Justice. In addition to that, though, just a couple of quick examples, if I may – the law enforcement mechanism of the Environmental Protection Agency, the redundant agencies we see or subagencies across the departments are great places to start. Interestingly, it’s been the usage of AI technology that has revealed a lot of these redundancies. And in the same way that maybe at NPR or at Heritage or in some private corporations, we’d have to go through the same exercise, the federal government is long overdue for such an effort.

SUMMERS: I’m going to jump in here for a second. You’ve talked about redundancies. You’ve alluded to government waste. Project 2025 did not necessarily spell out the creation of the Department of Government Efficiency, or DOGE, but it is carrying out several recommendations of the plan. How do you evaluate the success of DOGE? Are you happy with the work that it’s doing?

ROBERTS: You know, DOGE is a wonderful creation of President Trump and Elon Musk. It is an excellent example of how President Trump’s instincts match the – something the conservative movement has long wanted, as you know, which is a reduction in the expense of the federal government but obviously doing so in a way that’s very accelerated. We think that DOGE is ahead of schedule. We believe – or at least we’re very hopeful – that DOGE will continue to add to the savings that they’ve discovered thus far – as we have this conversation, that’s $160 billion. We’re hopeful…

SUMMERS: Let me…

ROBERTS: …They’ll get to their goal of a trillion…

SUMMERS: Let me just…

ROBERTS: …Dollars by end of the calender year.

SUMMERS: …Jump in there. I believe that DOGE actually, once promised 2 trillion in savings, now revised that to $150 billion, and even that number may be tough to achieve, given the inaccurate claims that NPR and other outlets have tracked. Given that many federal agencies already had oversight in the form of Congress, internal inspector generals, is it possible that it’s overstating the amount of waste that exists to be found and eliminated?

ROBERTS: No, I think it’s still early in the process. In fact, it’s remarkable that, as we’ve seen, the federal government gets so large and bloated since the New Deal that, in a span of only 3.5 months, DOGE has identified $160 billion in savings. Time will tell about how much they, in fact, save. We – our estimates at Heritage are that they’ll be much closer to a trillion dollars. But keep in mind, more importantly than even the quibble we’re having about the – what they have identified now in terms of dollar savings, what they have changed in Washington, D.C. – no longer is the question, can we, in fact, save money? The answer is, we already are. Look at the GDP report that came out. The reason that GDP is down a little bit is because for the first time since Trump was in office in his first term, government is spending less money.

SUMMERS: OK.

ROBERTS: We need years and decades of that to get this country back on track.

SUMMERS: I want to get to another item that’s a key agenda item of President Trump, and that is securing the border. Project 2025 called for mass deportations. From your view, is the Trump administration doing this in the most effective way possible?

ROBERTS: They are. I mean, the biggest obstacle to this are the several dozen sanctuary cities who are housing illegal aliens who are felons, who ought to be not only out of this country but in prisons, like the one in El Salvador. And the problem with this is, for illegal aliens who are not felons, which is a majority of them, some of them actually are subject to being rounded up in these ICE raids because mayors of these sanctuary cities are housing these felons. It would be good if those obstacles get out of the way so we can focus on the real lawbreakers.

SUMMERS: You’ve brought up sanctuary cities. I want to bring up some of the court challenges the administration is facing in some of these high-profile cases. Courts have said that everyone deported under the Alien Enemies Act are constitutionally owed due process, a meaningful opportunity to challenge their deportations. Legally, is this administration carrying out the immigration objectives laid out in the plan in ways you approve of?

ROBERTS: A hundred percent – illegal aliens are owed one process, and that’s an immigration court hearing. They’ve received that. A great example of the absurdity of some of these legal claims, as well as the rhetoric by some policymakers and those in corporate media, is the so-called Maryland man, who’s not at all a Maryland man whatsoever but an El Salvador man. Who…

SUMMERS: You’re speaking there…

ROBERTS: …Is to say that…

SUMMERS: …About the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, correct?

ROBERTS: That’s correct.

SUMMERS: In that case, he was deported despite a court order, which was supposed to present this (ph). The government has refused to return him to the United States for a deportation hearing, despite a Supreme Court order which asked the government to facilitate this. Is the administration making…

ROBERTS: Facilitate’s the operative word. And, in fact, that El Salvador man has been found twice in an immigration court to be a member and leader of MS-13. He is in El Salvador where he should stay for…

SUMMERS: His lawyers…

ROBERTS: …The rest of his life.

SUMMERS: …Have contended that he is not, and he has said that he is not.

ROBERTS: His lawyers are well-paid by the radical left, and they’re lying.

SUMMERS: Is the administration, in that case, making a fair claim of executive power?

ROBERTS: Not only fair, we celebrate it, and it’s one of the reasons we put the banner on the side of our building. It’s glorious.

SUMMERS: Do you worry that deportations under this administration could be taken too far? For instance, the claims that we have reported on and others – President Trump has suggested that he is considering deporting American citizens who were convicted of crimes to El Salvador.

ROBERTS: I don’t think they go too far. In fact, Tom Homan, the border czar, is a great friend of ours. He was a visiting fellow here at Heritage. I know him to be not only extraordinarily competent but also extraordinarily virtuous. He makes the decisions he does on the – for the sake of the everyday American, not for the sake of illegal aliens who should never have come here to begin with.

SUMMERS: I will…

ROBERTS: It’s interesting…

SUMMERS: I will just jump in again…

ROBERTS: …This conversation is just focused on that and not on the 21 million people who arrived here…

SUMMERS: Sir, I’m going to jump in again here. I’m asking about President Trump’s comments suggesting that he is considering deporting American citizens who are convicted of crimes to El Salvador and your response.

ROBERTS: And I told you I’m not worried about it. I’m asking you why you wouldn’t, with all the audience you have, be more focused on the negative effects of 21 million people being here illegally – 168,000 of whom we know are convicted felons.

SUMMERS: I’m going to move on to another topic here.

ROBERTS: I bet you will.

SUMMERS: Project 2025 is supportive of reciprocal tariffs. Are you pleased with what you’ve seen so far?

ROBERTS: So far, so good. I will say that we’re hopeful that as Treasury Secretary Bessent and Commerce Secretary Lutnick continue to take a leadership role in the negotiating of bilateral trade agreements, that we’ll see more clarity about a zealous focus of a reciprocal tariff regime generally, to the point of your question. But as we have called for at Heritage over the last three years, because we believe we’re in a new cold war with China, a very zealous focus on the Chinese Communist Party – if this tariff regime continues to move toward that, then I think that there will be great benefits – economic, political, national security, social and otherwise.

SUMMERS: We’ve got about a minute left here. I just want to note that we’ve seen such volatility in the stock market for weeks. Investors have lost billions, and there is economic data out today showing the economy contracting. Will the president continue to have the support he needs if the economy perhaps tips into recession?

ROBERTS: It looks like it, and I don’t – I think it’s too early to say that the economy will go into a recession. In fact, I think it’s at least as likely, given the data we saw today, which is much more positive than has been suggested, that the economy will be fine. No doubt, to your point, the market has been choppy. The market was going to be choppy anyway. There are a lot of large corporations that have been significantly overvalued in the market. It’s a factor that ought to be considered here. But the point is that as the administration continues to clarify its tariff regime, but most importantly, as it continues to share news about potential, maybe even likely, bilateral trade agreements, I think you’re going to see the economy actually take off and be very positive the rest of the year.

SUMMERS: We’ll have to leave it there. That’s Kevin Roberts, president of The Heritage Foundation and its lobbying arm, Heritage Action for America. Thank you so much for your time.

ROBERTS: Thanks for having me. Take care.

(SOUNDBITE OF RENAO SONG, “LIFELINE”)

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Florida moves to ban fluoride from public drinking water : NPR

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A bill that would ban fluoride from Florida’s public drinking water is heading to the governor’s desk.

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Romain Costaseca/Hans Lucas/AFP via Getty Images

Florida is poised to ban fluoride from its drinking water under new legislation passed by state lawmakers.

The bill now heads to Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis’ desk for a signature. If signed, Florida would become the second state after Utah to ban fluoride from its public water supply.

DeSantis has called water fluoridation “forced medication.” His office did not comment on whether DeSantis would sign the measure.

Water authorities in states across the U.S. have added a small amount of fluoride to water supplies for decades, and experts say it has prevented millions of cavities.

Florida’s Republican-led House of Representatives passed the measure on Tuesday as part of a broader farm bill. The Senate passed the ban earlier in April. Without mentioning fluoride specifically, the legislation would prohibit municipal authorities from adding “water quality additives” to the water supply.

DeSantis’ administration has already recommended the prohibition of fluoride, with the state Surgeon General Joseph Ladapo calling water fluoridation “public health malpractice,” as WUSF has reported.

Before Trump won the election, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., now Health and Human Services secretary, erroneously described fluoride as an “industrial waste” and said the White House would recommend banning the mineral from drinking water.

Kennedy — who subscribes to a number of debunked conspiracies surrounding health and wellness — also blamed the fluoridation of water for a myriad of health problems, including arthritis, bone fractures, bone cancer, IQ loss, neurodevelopmental disorders and thyroid disease.

But dentists and other health experts agree that controlled exposure to the mineral is key to preventing tooth decay and holds minimal risks for negative side effects.

In addition to breakthroughs like vaccines and seatbelts, public water fluoridation is considered one of the greatest public health innovations of the 20th century, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

Earlier in April, the HHS, under Kennedy’s guidance, announced that it had directed the CDC to reconvene an independent panel of 15 health experts to examine the role fluoride plays in water sources and whether it can be detrimental to public health.

The use of fluoride in water has been debated elsewhere.

Calgary, Canada, voted in 2011 to ban the mineral from its water supply, but after a notable spike in dental cavities in the city’s children, the legislature last year reversed its decision.

The Florida ban, if signed into law, would go into effect on July 1.

NPR special report marking Trump’s 100th day : NPR

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NPR marks the first 100 days of President Trump’s second term with a live two-hour special on Wednesday night starting at 8 p.m. ET.

Tune in for a look back on what’s changed since Trump was inaugurated in January. From immigration to the changing shape of the government, how has he made good on his campaign promises? Host Michel Martin, NPR correspondents and guests will also look at how shifting alliances, trade agreements and changes at the U.S. border have altered international relations.

Click on the audio button above to listen — or tune in on many public radio stations or in the NPR app. You can also tell your Alexa device to “Ask NPR to play Special Coverage.”

More coverage from NPR :

Congress acquiesces to Trump but pressure tests lie ahead : NPR

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In his first 100 days in office President Donald Trump has signed just five bills into law while issuing over 100 executive actions, a pattern that fits with his vision of a more powerful executive.

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Kayla Bartkowski/Getty Images/Getty Images North America

If Trump has adopted the Silicon Valley ethos of “move fast and break things” for his second term, then “move slow and get out of the way” could be the corresponding marching orders on Capitol Hill.

President Trump has taken about executive actions in his first 100 days in office — a rapid pace that rivals the 162 actions President Biden took in his entire time in office.

Consider in the same period of time, Congress has enacted just five laws, a low watermark in modern congressional history for this time period.

To a large extent, Trump is enjoying the spoils of unilateral party control of Washington, where there has been no significant push back as he legislates through executive actions on everything from immigration to election law, ignores statutes that require the White House to inform the Senate on certain actions before taking them, upends the economy with tariffs that Congress could technically block and, most notably, allowed billionaire Elon Musk to lead a government “department” — without confirmation hearings before the Senate — that has unilaterally slashed and cut agencies and programs funded by Congress through its constitutional authority to determine how taxpayer dollars get spent.

In a testament to the strength of Trump’s party loyalty, GOP leaders have taken little issue with it.

“I think there’s a gross overreaction in the media to what is happening,” Speaker Mike Johnson, R-La., told reporters earlier this year when asked whether Musk’s government slashing efforts were trampling on congressional turf.

Johnson has said the president has the authority to make sure dollars in the executive agencies are well spent. “It looks radical, it’s not. I call it stewardship.”

But there are signals that all is not well with some in Congress.

Sen. Lisa Murkowski, R-Alaska, made a stunning admission at an event in Anchorage during the last congressional recess.

“We are all afraid,” she told constituents. “It’s quite a statement, but we are in a time and a place where I certainly have not been before, and I’ll tell ya, I’m oftentimes very anxious myself about using my voice, because retaliation is real. And that’s not right.”

Meet The New Congress, Same As The Old Congress

Trump didn’t start this, said Professor Joseph Postell, an associate professor of politics at Hillsdale College, but he is benefitting from it.

“Congress has for decades kind of ceded its authority, including authority over fiscal matters, appropriations, budgets, things like that,” he told NPR, “I think it’s a huge concern in this Congress, the extent to which Trump has been able to lead the Congress on fiscal questions, but I also don’t think that’s out of keeping with the way Congress has performed or conducted itself over the last few decades.”

Congress is designed to be a co-equal branch of government and a check on executive power, but in practice when the same party controls the White House, lawmakers in the modern era have proven willing to go along with the usurpation of their legislative power.

The dynamic applies to both parties — like when Democrats cheered President Biden’s executive actions to create a student loan forgiveness program, which the Supreme Court later ruled unconstitutional.

It was this fertile ground that has allowed Musk’s team to institute cuts across departments, agencies, and programs with little pushback from the GOP-led Congress.

Congressional scholars like Postell say a government that functions like this is a cause for concern. “I see the decline of a Congress that legislates as a serious constitutional crisis that anybody who believes in republican government should be concerned about. So I tend not to see this as just a neutral change. I see it as a serious constitutional concern.”

Show Them The Money

Lawmakers also need to decide how they are going to approve the spending bills for fiscal year 2026 — which starts Oct. 1 — after punting on this year’s bills.

Kevin Kosar, a congressional scholar with the right-leaning American Enterprise Institute, said it was understandable for Congress to want to clear the decks at the start of this Congress, but the real test of congressional muscle under Trump will be how they handle next year’s spending bills.

“The patient we know as Congress, I do not think is wholly dead,” Kosar said, adding that House and Senate lawmakers will want some assurances that the money is actually going to be spent because otherwise it’s a futile process. “I would think, ultimately, the appropriators’ desire for power would kick in. I mean, it’s going to have to kick in at some point. Otherwise what’s the point of being an appropriator?” Kosar said.

Sarah Binder, a congressional scholar with the centrist Brookings Institution, agrees. “You don’t want to overuse the word, but it is kind of existential for Congress,” she said, “It’s really hard to get around the single most important power that Congress has as the power of the purse, and if the parties can’t be sure that the administration is going to abide by those pots of money that they set in to statute, that they put into law, then the jig is up, right?”

Kosar also nodded to the political reality of the moment, where the House GOP majority is on the line in 2026. Historically, the party in power in the White House tends to lose seats in the midterms. Republicans hold a slim two-seat majority.

“I do feel like the administration and congressional Republicans, to a degree, really are operating within a two year window, and so the amount of deference that legislators are showing is to some degree, like, ‘we just have to do this to see if we can rack up as many wins as possible, because those midterms are probably not going to go our way.'”

To that end, Speaker Johnson has gone so far as to use parliamentary rules to effectively block the House’s ability to vote to repeal Trump’s tariffs, as well as any effort to vote on a resolution calling for an investigation into Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth’s use of the Signal messaging app to discuss sensitive military operations. “I think it’s an overreach here,” said Rep. Mary Scanlon, D-Pa., on Monday, “I think it’s simply for the purpose of having to avoid tough votes.”

For his part, Thune told reporters on Tuesday that Republicans want to be “good partners” to a president who Thune reiterated has a mandate — “It was clear, it was decisive” — to enact his policy goals.

A near-term policy fight that could upend the Senate indefinitely

Newly minted Senate Majority Leader John Thune, R-S.D., has been working judiciously with Senate Republicans to make those policy goals a reality in the one “big, beautiful bill” Trump has demanded.

That massive undertaking is intended to make Trump’s 2017 tax cuts permanent as well as include border security and energy provision using a budget process called reconciliation that allows the majority party to skirt the filibuster, the chamber’s 60-vote threshold to pass most legislation, and advance the package without Democratic votes.

Thune has already described it as an “arduous” process that typically involves relying on the Senate parliamentarian to referee what can and what fits the strict rules for a reconciliation bill.

The parliamentarian is a non-partisan Senate staffer tasked with safeguarding Senate rules. In the past, reconciliation has been guided by that person’s judgment. For instance, Democrats wanted to include a $15 federal minimum wage hike in a 2021 pandemic relief package that advanced under reconciliation rules. But the parliamentarian nixed the policy because it did not comply with the complicated rules for what is allowed in such a bill.

For instance, in order for a bill to qualify for reconciliation and the lower, 50-vote threshold for passage, it generally cannot increase the federal deficit over the next decade.

But Republicans, backed by Majority Leader Thune, are already looking to bypass that rule–and the parliamentarian–in order to use a favorable analysis for the deficit impact of the tax cuts. In reality, trillions will be added to the U.S. national debt over the next decade if Trump’s tax cuts are extended without ways to pay for them.

Binder says ignoring the parliamentarian can be consequential. “If you just ignore parliamentary history, it’s really for a lack of a better term, it’s really ‘Calvin ball‘ where you choose your rules solely for the purpose of getting the outcome that you want, and that’s quite destabilizing to the U.S. Congress.”

Thune will also likely face pressure to overrule the parliamentarian if the official rules that provisions on immigration or energy policy do not comply with budget rules. Thune has said publicly he does not wish to overrule the parliamentarian, but he could face a pressure campaign from Trump to get what the president wants in that bill.

Democrats warn that doing so would amount to going “nuclear” and threaten the foundational pillar of minority rule in the Senate: the filibuster. “They are tramping all over the rules that have governed the Senate for decades in order to give massive tax cuts for their billionaire friends,” said Schumer on the Senate floor earlier this month.

Here's what stood out in 100 days of Trump policies in key areas

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We examine Trump’s actions and missteps in first 100 days on the economy, immigration and foreign policy.

GOP can’t defend Hegseth Signal use, says Rep. Adam Smith : NPR

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Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth speaks to members of the Michigan National Guard at Selfridge Air National Guard Base, Tuesday, April 29 in Harrison Township, Mich., during a visit with President Donald Trump.

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Alex Brandon/AP

The Republican majority in the House of Representatives has blocked an inquiry into Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth’s use of the encrypted messaging app Signal.

Hegseth shared sensitive details about military operations conducted against Houthis in Yemen in March in two different group chats – including one that involved his wife, brother and personal lawyer.

Rep. Adam Smith, D-Wash., told Morning Edition that Speaker Mike Johnson and House Republicans blocked any inquiry resolutions into the matter because they know Hegseth and his actions are “indefensible.” Smith filed a resolution of inquiry, which allows a member of the House to force an investigation even when they’re in the minority.

“They are so afraid of this issue, they can’t defend it, that they don’t want to talk about it,” Smith said. “And they will go to extraordinary process lengths to try to prevent Congress from doing its job of exercising oversight over the Pentagon.”

Speaker Johnson said before the Tuesday vote that it was meant to prevent “nonsensical waste of our time,” and that the majority was using House rules “to prevent political hijinks and political stunts.”

Smith spoke to NPR’s Steve Inskeep about his blocked resolution and current limits on congressional oversight.

This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity. 

Interview highlights

Steve Inskeep: What did House Republicans do yesterday when you tried to use your power to force an investigation?

Rep. Adam Smith: They passed a rule basically to shut off resolutions of inquiry to not allow them, which basically frustrates the democratic process. And there’s a theme there in terms of what the Trump administration has been doing all over the place, changing the rules, not allowing open public discussion in the normal democratic process to take place. And I guess there’s substance and there is this process here. And the substance is they are so afraid of this issue, they can’t defend it, that they don’t want to talk about it. And they will go to extraordinary process lengths to try to prevent Congress from doing its job of exercising oversight over the Pentagon. And as you know from the signal story, Secretary Hegseth really needs oversight, given his use of sensitive information in a way that is incredibly dangerous.

Rep. Adam Smith, D-Wash., the House Armed Services ranking member, challenges Rep. Ralph Norman, R-S.C., on his request to remove "the woke" from the bill text as the House Rules Committee prepares to advance the fiscal 2024 National Defense Authorization Act, at the Capitol in Washington, Tuesday, June 11, 2024.

Rep. Adam Smith, D-Wash., the House Armed Services ranking member, challenges Rep. Ralph Norman, R-S.C., on his request to remove “the woke” from the bill text as the House Rules Committee prepares to advance the fiscal 2024 National Defense Authorization Act, at the Capitol in Washington, Tuesday, June 11, 2024.

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J. Scott Applewhite/AP

Inskeep: Now, there are two ways to look at this, I suppose, and one is in an institutional sense, there is Congress. You’re separate from the executive branch. You’re supposed to give oversight. You’re supposed to defend your institution. And I think that’s what you’re saying you’re trying to do. But let me ask about another thing. There’s also the House majority, and they try to run things as much as possible. You’ve been in Congress a long time, including when Democrats were in the majority. Have Democrats welcomed Republican demands for investigations in the past?

Smith: We’ve never welcomed them. But there are rules put in place so that the minority can be heard. That’s part of a representative democracy – not to get in the whole Founding Fathers Constitution thing. But that was one thing they really wanted to make sure. The majority controls and in the end they will probably win if they have the votes. But you want to make sure that minority voices are heard. That’s part of having a representative democracy. It’s part of having people have a voice in their government. You want to allow for those debates, even if in the end you lose the vote.

And what Republicans are doing now is they’re trying to shut off even the discussion and the debate. And actually the reconciliation process was interesting. We marked up in the Armed Services Committee yesterday to your previous story. Now in the Armed Services Committee, they gave us an extra $150 billion. So we’re spending money not cutting it. But we on the minority side raised a whole series of amendments about what happened with signal gate and what takes out this doing. Republicans just didn’t say anything. They just voted them all down. They refused to even speak one time to defend the secretary, I guess, because they know he’s indefensible. So they want to shut down the debate and not have the conversation. And that is really important because forget how you feel about the issue. We’re America. We’re a representative government. We’re supposed to have the opportunity to have debate, discussion, and they are trying to shut that down.

Inskeep: I just want to remember again, the majority tries to run things and the majority that is connected with the president is going to try to protect the president to some extent. But would you make the argument that, in this case, in this year, Congress is effectively neutering itself, going farther than a majority normally would to shut down debate and avoid their own institutional job to be a check on the president?

Smith: A hundred percent. This is unprecedented. At the end of the day, we’ll have the vote if they want to vote the way they vote. They win, that’s great. But what they’re trying to do is they’re trying to shut down the debate. They don’t want to have the conversation. And again, I will submit it’s like they know that they cannot defend Pete Hegseth. So they just want to make the entire issue go away and not allow people to talk about it. And everybody ought to be concerned about that.

NPR disclosure: Katherine Maher, the CEO of NPR, chairs the board of the Signal Foundation.

Julie Depenbrock and Nia Dumas produced the radio version of this story.

Doug Emhoff, Biden appointees fired from Holocaust museum board : NPR

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Former second gentleman Doug Emhoff, speaking at a rally in November, was among the Biden appointees the Trump administration removed from the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum’s board of trustees.

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Angela Weiss/AFP via Getty Images

The Trump administration has fired at least some of former President Joe Biden’s appointees to the board that oversees the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, including former second gentleman Doug Emhoff.

Emhoff, who is married to former Vice President Kamala Harris, led the Biden administration’s efforts to combat antisemitism from his history-making vantage point as the first Jewish spouse of a U.S. president or vice president.

He was one of 12 people Biden appointed in January to the United States Holocaust Memorial Council, the board of trustees of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, D.C. Presidential appointees typically serve a five-year term, according to the museum’s website.

On Tuesday, however, several Biden appointees were notified of their abrupt termination from the board. The New York Times, which first reported the firings, said notices came via email from the White House Presidential Personnel Office. Tuesday was the 80th anniversary of the liberation of Nazi Germany’s Dachau concentration camp.

Emhoff confirmed and criticized his termination in a statement on social media, in which he wrote that “Holocaust remembrance and education should never be politicized.”

“To turn one of the worst atrocities in history into a wedge issue is dangerous — and it dishonors the memory of six million Jews murdered by Nazis that this museum was created to preserve,” wrote Emhoff, whose great-grandparents fled persecution from modern-day Poland in the early 19th century.

The White House did not respond to questions about why — and how many — board members were terminated, but said Trump plans to appoint new members.

In a statement emailed to NPR, White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt said Trump “looks forward to appointing new individuals who will not only continue to honor the memory of those who perished in the Holocaust, but who are also steadfast supporters of the State of Israel.”

The United States Holocaust Memorial Council, which meets twice a year, consists of 55 members appointed by the president, as well as five members each from the Senate and House of Representatives and three ex-officio members from the Departments of Education, Interior and State.

It is not clear how many board members were terminated on Tuesday. The New York Times and Associated Press report that other officials dismissed include Ron Klain, Biden’s first chief of staff; Anthony Bernal, a senior advisor to former first lady Jill Biden; and Susan Rice, Biden’s former domestic policy adviser and an architect of his national strategy for combating antisemitism.

Former Rep. David Cicilline, D-Rhode Island, whom Biden appointed to the board in 2024, confirmed to NPR that his position was also terminated. Cicilline — who left Congress in 2023 to run the Rhode Island Foundation — called firings “deeply disappointing” in an emailed statement on Wednesday.

“The Museum’s work has always been nonpartisan and should remain so,” he said. “It is meant to challenge us all to think critically and clearly about our role in society, to confront antisemitism, and all other forms of hate.”

The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, which was established by Congress in 1980 and opened in 1993, is the country’s official memorial to the Holocaust, dedicated to the documentation, study and interpretation of the genocide of European Jews during World War II.

It describes itself as an “independent establishment of the United States government operating as a public-private partnership that receives some federal funding to support operations of the Museum building.”

When asked about the terminations, Andrew Hollinger, the museum’s communication director, told NPR over email that the museum “is gratified that our visitation is robust and demand for Holocaust education is increasing,” especially given the rise in antisemitism and Holocaust denial or distortion.

“We look forward to continuing to advance our vitally important mission as we work with the Trump Administration,” Hollinger wrote.

But some current and former board members, as well as prominent Jewish community leaders, say Trump’s terminations will threaten the institution’s ability to carry out that mission.

“Donald Trump’s action to prematurely remove members of the board before the end of their terms is an attempt to politicize an institution dedicated to remembering one of the worst atrocities in our history and hurts our efforts to educate future generations,” Nevada Sen. Jacky Rosen, a Democrat who was appointed to the board in 2021, said in a statement shared with NPR.

Andrew Weinstein, who was appointed to the board by former President Barack Obama and served during the first Trump administration, said on social media that “removing Biden appointees is petty and vindictive and distracts from this important work.”

Jonathan Greenblatt, CEO of the Anti-Defamation League, asked for a “fulsome explanation for this decision and even a reconsideration.”

“While it’s true that the White House has the privilege to appoint and dismiss members to such bodies, the latter prerogative should be used with caution and only in the most egregious situations,” he wrote.

The Trump administration has targeted several prominent cultural institutions and their boards during his first few months in office.

In February, he purged the Biden-appointed members of the Kennedy Center board and installed himself as its chair. In March, he issued a sweeping executive order aimed to eliminate “woke ideology” from the Smithsonian Institution, singling out the American Art Museum, the National Museum of African American History and Culture, and the forthcoming American Women’s History Museum as examples.

On Monday, Trump attempted to fire three of the five board members of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting — which quickly sued him in response, arguing he does not have the authority to do so.

Disclosure: NPR receives about 1% of its funds directly from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, as explained here.